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Topic | Please someone answer this
LadyRoseWolf
Hello, I'm Rosie, I'm 20 and I've had 2 photoshoots in all the time I've wanted to be a model.
I'm really curious to know as to how many photoshoots do you have to participate in before you can call yourself professional and could command a decent amount of pay?
I hope it's not too many because I have a hard time setting up photoshoots as it is.

Having done 2 photoshoots and have 2 planned for next week, how much could I command for payment? Photographers on here have been rude to me before saying if I hope to get paid, as a newbie I'd have to exploit myself basically and do nude, this displeases me as they are saying that I'm only good for that, but I have a lot more to offer than that, more interesting ideas and sexy outfits, I have principles and standards that I won't push aside just to earn money.

No offense by the way to any model who wishes to do nude, that is your choice, I am not in anyway having ago at models that are willing to go down that root, it's just for me it's not an option and I may sound like I'm "dissing" nudity but it's only to make a point about my own standards and morals
LadyRoseWolf , Model  posted on 22/08/2011 00:36:57   Posted 83 times

Located:manchester,Cheshire, UK
Member Since: 17/11/2009
       
nwpp
I have played a thousand games of football but cannot call myself professional...

Its about quality not quantity, you need to be worthy of payment for an assignment over all of the many aspiring models out there, when you are in demand and people want to pay you over other models who will do it for free... then I guess you can make a claim.

Sadly you lack one of the most basic of credentials which is height, this kinda automatically pigeon holes you into the glamour market, hence the topless and sugestive styles of the shoots you have been offered.

Glamour photography is still art when executed by the right people, dont be afraid of it, its not dirty or seedy.

The end. Member Image



Cheers

Big Nige

P.S - I'm waffling again aren't I

nwpp , Photographer  posted on 22/08/2011 01:58:32   Posted 544 times

Located:Sittingbourne,Kent, UK
Member Since: 25/03/2009
       
LadyRoseWolf

Quoting post from nwpp
I have played a thousand games of football but cannot call myself professional...

Its about quality not quantity, you need to be worthy of payment for an assignment over all of the many aspiring models out there, when you are in demand and people want to pay you over other models who will do it for free... then I guess you can make a claim.

Sadly you lack one of the most basic of credentials which is height, this kinda automatically pigeon holes you into the glamour market, hence the topless and sugestive styles of the shoots you have been offered.

Glamour photography is still art when executed by the right people, dont be afraid of it, its not dirty or seedy.

The end. Member Image



Cheers

Big Nige

P.S - I'm waffling again aren't I


I don't get why height is so important, if you've got the look then it should be a no brainer and I've been told by many I have the look, that I would make a terrific model and no one else in the world cares about my being smaller other than stupid people in the business but who do they cater for? the people.
Only catwalk models are required for being tall but there are many areas of modelling in which height does not apply, such as catalogue, who can tell what height you are in a magazine, honestly, I can't!

But lets take a look at twiggy, she was only short I believe, but she had the look and she became a supermodel, enough said.

I just need to put myself out there.

Rosie
LadyRoseWolf , Model  posted on 23/08/2011 01:08:21   Posted 83 times

Located:manchester,Cheshire, UK
Member Since: 17/11/2009
       
thejase
Stick to your guns. If you know what you want to do and how far you want to go then let that be your criteria for accepting work. Sure you might fail but at least you've done that on your own terms. And if you're ever in SE London, I'll be happy to do some pics - in a boiler suit if you wanted. Let's face it, a few pics is not the big deal a lot of people make it out to be.
thejase , Videographer  posted on 24/08/2011 01:54:26   Posted 44 times

Located:London,London, UK
Member Since: 20/10/2009
       
DragonLady
I think the best way to view this is to remember you are a product. If there is demand for a product it gets value. Then it comes down to supply.


For example, can you model and sell things with your image, then you pass first test, you are a product.

Second test, a model that looks like a million other models therefore has mass supply of that 'look' so yes you can model, yes you have the right look but you have low value as you are not in short supply.

Third test, a model that has a unique look, poses well and is professional, sensible and has controller her images can command good money.

So with the above in mind, yes height is important. Not only for fashion houses who pay big bucks and their clothes are designed for height and catwalk but it is also more rare for someone to have the right figure and look AND be over 5'8-5'9.

Aside from that when you look at your book, how many other models on here have a portfolio as good or better? I wont say my view but leave this to you, this will answer test 2 for you.

So I leave it to you to review yourself and decide, at this time, your value.

As for the photographers saying you must do nude, well, no comment except to say judge them on their portfolio and if there is a second interest in those particular peoples minds aside from photography Member Image

M
DragonLady , Digital Retoucher  posted on 24/08/2011 15:50:29   Posted 948 times

Located:London,London, UK
Member Since: 07/11/2008
       
Karada
Modeling is not just about all the glamorous Size 0 models.  For fashion, height is important to ensure the clothes that are being modeled hang properly.  If you have a design that requires a long graceful sweep of material you cannot get it with a short model.
Body parts is a whole different requirement.  Good facial structure and flawless skin will get work in the cosmetics and hair industry, Long thin hands and good nails will get work in beauty products, good legs and nice feet will get work in the footwear sector.
Yes Twiggy was short but she had long proportioned legs and was skinny just at the time the mini-skirt came into fashion and she epitomised the mini-skirt era.  She was just what the ad-man wanted at that time.
It is not necessary to get naked for the commercial photographic world.  However aongst the Semi-pro/Amateur sites you are more likely to get paid work if you do.  The best paid are probably those models who are in California and work for the photographers supporting fetish and bondage websites.  I know one photographer who pinched a local model that I was hoping to work with by offering $800 for a 2-3 hour shoot.   I think he pays more than that now and gets top names, like Dita von Teese, to shoot bondage with him.
So I think modeling is all what you want get out of it and what you want to make it.  I think one of the agencies did a survey and found that 70% of 12-15 year old girls wanted to be a model.   Less that 0.1% will make it to the big time.

Karada , Photographer  posted on 24/08/2011 21:02:25   Posted 23 times

Located:Camberley,Surrey, UK
Member Since: 26/03/2011
       
LadyRoseWolf
I didn't say I wanted to work in high end fashion, I have been told that this is the only areas that require 6 ft crazy heights but as I said there are other areas of modelling... besides exposing yourself, doing nude... that don't require it so much and I will not stand to be penalised for being short, I want to model.

Are you basically telling me to give up? That I'm going to fail at being a model? because this is what I'm getting from these responses and that's not fair, I will not have my spirit brought down by some stupid tradition
LadyRoseWolf , Model  posted on 24/08/2011 23:46:34   Posted 83 times

Located:manchester,Cheshire, UK
Member Since: 17/11/2009
       
LadyRoseWolf
Oh and one more thing, I am willing to do implied nude and lingerie, I think this is much better than nude, in my opinion anyway because there are a wide range of beautiful and sexy lingerie sets and that and implied nude leaves more to the imagination, I'm pretty sure I could get work with this is mind?
If I come across as a nightmare, I assure you I'm not, I'm just stating my opinions and I'm entitled to do so
LadyRoseWolf , Model  posted on 24/08/2011 23:52:15   Posted 83 times

Located:manchester,Cheshire, UK
Member Since: 17/11/2009
       
RedDove
Give Rosie a chance someone Member Image She is trying her best to be heard

Now where do we go from here?

RedDove , Model  posted on 25/08/2011 00:07:18   Posted 522 times

Located:Chippenham,Wiltshire, UK
Member Since: 27/07/2009
       
thejase
Like I said Rosie, stick to your guns and good luck Member Image
thejase , Videographer  posted on 25/08/2011 00:09:35   Posted 44 times

Located:London,London, UK
Member Since: 20/10/2009
       
LadyRoseWolf
Thank you both, I'm sick of negative comments lol,
Though I think some of them were trying to be helpful.
I'm really a happy person who's good to work with,
I enjoy doing photoshoots and would like to make a living out of it someday soon.
I like meeting new people too, I even consider working with other models, that could be fun Member Image Member Image
LadyRoseWolf , Model  posted on 25/08/2011 00:13:02   Posted 83 times

Located:manchester,Cheshire, UK
Member Since: 17/11/2009
       
Karada

Quoting post from RedDove
Give Rosie a chance someone Member Image She is trying her best to be heard

Now where do we go from here?


I was not trying to be negative just pointing out the problems facing models and that you have to decide what areas you wish to shoot in. High fashion does require the height but that only makes up a tiny proportion of the market.
All I can say is don't set your aspirations too high and try and run before you can walk.  Looking for paid shoots after only two photoshoots is not going to get much of a response.  Offer to do some TFP/TFCD shoots,to build up your experience and range in your portfolio.  See if there are any group shoots taking place and go along to them as a model.  Build up your contacts and keep them organised.  Remember it is not what you know but who you know.   You may have to be prepared to travel as not many photographers will want to come and lug all their equipment to you for a TF shoot.   Make sure you are signed up on other sites as well and display some of your portfolio.   Don't put all your good pictures up in one go.  A number of sites display recently added pictures and adding one a day, even if you have to delete an existing image, keeps you in front of the site visitors.
Above all don't lose heart, just try to gain experience.   If you were closer I would happily give you a TFCD shoot but you are 4 hours drive and about £140 of petrol away.

Karada , Photographer  posted on 25/08/2011 11:05:59   Posted 23 times

Located:Camberley,Surrey, UK
Member Since: 26/03/2011
       
LadyRoseWolf

Quoting post from Karada

I was not trying to be negative just pointing out the problems facing models and that you have to decide what areas you wish to shoot in. High fashion does require the height but that only makes up a tiny proportion of the market.
All I can say is don't set your aspirations too high and try and run before you can walk.  Looking for paid shoots after only two photoshoots is not going to get much of a response.  Offer to do some TFP/TFCD shoots,to build up your experience and range in your portfolio.  See if there are any group shoots taking place and go along to them as a model.  Build up your contacts and keep them organised.  Remember it is not what you know but who you know.   You may have to be prepared to travel as not many photographers will want to come and lug all their equipment to you for a TF shoot.   Make sure you are signed up on other sites as well and display some of your portfolio.   Don't put all your good pictures up in one go.  A number of sites display recently added pictures and adding one a day, even if you have to delete an existing image, keeps you in front of the site visitors.
Above all don't lose heart, just try to gain experience.   If you were closer I would happily give you a TFCD shoot but you are 4 hours drive and about £140 of petrol away.


Thank you Karada for your help, I will bear all this in mind.
I know, I am trying to get as many TF shoots as I can and as far as the "you should travel to photoshoots" goes, it's very hard to travel anywhere with no money to be honest, so if I was to travel it couldn't be very far.

And also, adding any photos, any new ones is very hard as net-portfolio rejects any photos that I try and upload now, I don't know why, it keeps saying I've used up my space quota, even when I delete photos to make way for new ones it keeps saying this.
My photos just never seem to be small enough for this darn website!

I much prefer MM if I'm honest, you get to put up 15 photos for free!
This site is a joke, it just tries to get money out of you by giving you as little free space as possible so you'll upgrade.. and I refuse to pay for an upgrade just to put up a couple more photos just for it to still say "your photos are tooo big!" blah blah
Well I can't upgrade because I've got no money!

Anyway thank you again, I know you're not being negative :)
LadyRoseWolf , Model  posted on 26/08/2011 23:30:31   Posted 83 times

Located:manchester,Cheshire, UK
Member Since: 17/11/2009
       
zaktyler
Hi Rosie,

I run Amberkat Studios in Liverpool. A few thoughts for what their worth:
Looking at your pics I can see two big things that I would describe as good selling points for you:

1. You have a slightly unusual & young look.

2. You have a liking for being creative in your look & wardrobe.

As somebody who shoots a lot of alt. models that provides some good material to work with. Unfortunately it's hard to actually make money from this. Those that do usually make a little by modelling for small alt. fashion shops or maybe from an alt. model studio day or being the face of a local band or local club poster etc. It's not unreasonable though to ask for your travel to be paid if your undertaking TF shoots.
Most of the alt. models I know set their sights on getting some unpaid publication & therefore we work on getting them published in magazines like Bizarre, FRONT etc. with pretty good success.  You may then begin to attract a following including the odd photographer willing to pay for a shoot. 

So in conclusion don't look at success or failure in terms of getting paid work. The vast majority of models find this challenging. Consider instead using your modelling to satisfy your creative urges & hopefully you'll find the experience more rewarding.

Good luck!

Zak 



 
zaktyler , Photographer  posted on 28/08/2011 21:02:07   Posted 6 times

Located:Liverpool,Merseyside, UK
Member Since: 28/12/2009
       
GCImages
I have done a shoot with Rosie and she worked hard, came up with some great outfits and has an intriguing expression.  Well worth a shoot without having to get naked to make it interesting!

Some of you Manchester photographers may be pleasantly surprized......

Glenn
GCImages , Photographer  posted on 30/08/2011 16:23:20   Posted 707 times

Located:Gloucestershire,Gloucestershire, UK
Member Since: 03/10/2009
       
terry20
I think that you have the facts right but don't like the implication when it refers to you. 



There are that many new 'models' looking to make a go of modelling that it is so easy for a photographer to get one and do TFP. Why would a photographer, many of whom are either amateur or at best semi-pro, pay for a new model when they can get one free with the same amount of experience.  Unfortunately experience is all important in this business.



However most photographers recognise that if a girl is prepared to do nude it is only fair and proper to compensate her, that doesn't naturally mean they only want you to do nude in order to be paid!



Get lots more experience and you will know that you are on the right track if the demand for your services goes up then you can look at being paid.  But that will only happen if your portfolio shows that you have something special or you are just right for a published shoot.



I wish you well and never lose sight of your principles, it can be a very slippery slope.



Best wishes



Terry




terry20 , Photographer  posted on 31/08/2011 20:20:42   Posted 1 times

Located:ROCHESTER,Kent, UK
Member Since: 24/11/2009
       
LadyRoseWolf
Thanks you all, you've been a big help, I will indeed stick to my principles.
Mum said never let anybody goad me into doing anything I don't want to do and indeed I'll stick to her advice :)

And yes I intend to acquire a lot more experience,
I don't want to be pushy in getting people to pay me, it's just that I need the money right now so any paid shoots photographers are willing to do will be a help, but even though I... we are desperate for money, you can see I'm still not giving in to doing porno which I hear pays a lot. A guy from this site offered me a job doing nude but he required me to send him 20 photos and a strip tease video describing each part of my body as I revealed it.
Alarm bells rang out, if he was going to do this kind of thing on the shoot, why the heck would he want 20 already nude photos of me and a video as well!!!???

tell me what you think of this? I reported him but net-port replied back saying there was nothing inappropriate about this and that he was just simply offering me work, yeah, as a soft porn star...O.O Member Image Member Image
LadyRoseWolf , Model  posted on 02/09/2011 00:17:50   Posted 83 times

Located:manchester,Cheshire, UK
Member Since: 17/11/2009
       
kgp

Quoting post from LadyRoseWolf
I didn't say I wanted to work in high end fashion, I have been told that this is the only areas that require 6 ft crazy heights but as I said there are other areas of modelling... besides exposing yourself, doing nude... that don't require it so much and I will not stand to be penalised for being short, I want to model.

Are you basically telling me to give up? That I'm going to fail at being a model? because this is what I'm getting from these responses and that's not fair, I will not have my spirit brought down by some stupid tradition


I've been in this business over 40 years and some of the best models are 5' 7" or less remember Kate Moss is only 5' 7". at the moment I'm working with three models below 5' 4" and they are so busy I have to book them well in advance. One model has just bought her self a £30,000 car not bad for 5' 3" and she 


doesn’t do nude work.
You stick with it and get yourself spread across more net-works. :)

kgp , Photographer  posted on 10/10/2011 12:10:35   Posted 18 times

Located:Denbigh,Denbighshire, UK
Member Since: 17/10/2009
       
RoyNesbitt

Quoting post from RedDove
Give Rosie a chance someone Member Image She is trying her best to be heard

Now where do we go from here?


I have sent a message about trying to organise a shoot and upto now got no reply. So maybe a chance isnt good enough. Dont want to sound blunt and sorry if its come across that way.
RoyNesbitt , Photographer  posted on 19/10/2011 11:17:26   Posted 35 times

Located:Warrington,Cheshire, UK
Member Since: 04/10/2011
       
Epiphone
Roy, they only answer on these sites if there is a cash imcentive.  I haven't been able to get any interest in TFP shoots arranged from other sites, but when you flutter some wedge in front of them they will, hopefully, answer your messages.
Epiphone , Photographer  posted on 19/10/2011 16:02:47   Posted 32 times

Located:Chelmsford,Essex, UK
Member Since: 08/03/2011
       
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