I feel the need to post this - I have recently tried to arrange a few shoots to get a folio together and have to say I'm finding it disgusting that people arrange and not show and others start arrangements then fail to respond to messages to finalise dates.

I have shot in other fields and was interested in moving to this sites direction as a photographer but am doubting its worth. 

Anyone else having the same/similar problems ?

Absolutely there is a point!  You have been on here since early 2010 and I didn't recognise a picture or your profile so I assume you have been taking things slow?

Get yourself out there in the forums, be part of the community and that will increase your profile on the site which should manifest itself in shoots.  At the end of the day though, sometimes you just have to put your hand in your pocket and pay.

I find this site very productive and it has produced a number of great collaborations.  Just needs your input to make it work.

Hope that helps.

Glenn

GCImages , Photographer  posted on 15/11/2011 19:44:38   Posted 677 times

Located:Gloucestershire,Hampshire, UK
Member Since: 03/10/2009

No there is no point. See my reply to Roy Nesbit's post.  You're not alone.  This aspect of photography is only useful to the selected few.

Glad its not just me - was starting to get a complex lol.
As for paying , happy to but thought if I could do a TF shoot to be mutually beneficial to both parties it was an economical way of folio building.

There us absolutely point.I find when I am more active on forums etc I get more feedback,replies etc...however I do find that many people are flaky when it comes to tfcd or tfp and perhaps thats because nothing is free in this world and so therefore why should they model for free...to be honest I wouldn't respond either!

Quoting post from Danimarie
There us absolutely point.I find when I am more active on forums etc I get more feedback,replies etc...however I do find that many people are flaky when it comes to tfcd or tfp and perhaps thats because nothing is free in this world and so therefore why should they model for free...to be honest I wouldn't respond either!

  Well said

Now where do we go from here?

RedDove , Model  posted on 23/11/2011 16:57:22   Posted 512 times

Located:Chippenham,Wiltshire, UK
Member Since: 27/07/2009

Quoting post from Danimarie
There us absolutely point.I find when I am more active on forums etc I get more feedback,replies etc...however I do find that many people are flaky when it comes to tfcd or tfp and perhaps thats because nothing is free in this world and so therefore why should they model for free...to be honest I wouldn't respond either!

So only the model's time has value.....
It's nice to know that the Photographers time has no value, his/her experience has no value, the scrimping and saving to buy all the camera/studio equipment has no value.

That statement explains a great deal.

Well this is always going to be a problem for both models and photographers of all levels of ability.



This is how I see it:-



Beginner photographer wants to do a tf... shoot with a model, and that's fine, nothing wrong with that, BUT.......and this is where the problems start....



Model wants fabulous, stunning pictures, but the beginner photographer is not able to deliver the goods.

So what happens next?

Should the beginner photographer work with beginner models? In which case neither model or photographer will learn anything from each other as they just don't know.



Or should beginner photographer shoot tf...with established models? In which case the model can teach the photographer some things, but won't get the quality of images as he/she would do if he/she shot with an experienced photographer.



Now this is where it gets more interesting!!!!



Would an experienced photographer shoot tf.... with a beginner model, knowing that he/she is not going to get the pose, expression, look etc etc with out a lot of hard work directing? While i'm sure some will, I suspect the vast majority won't! And I don't blame them, they have learnt there trade!



I have no answers for any of this, it's all up to you what you do and how you go about doing it, but this is what I did:-



I paid a photographer for two shoots....YES, I PAID.....TWICE.....



That got me a strong port for a beginner and got me sufficiently noticed to do some tfcd shoots. I then went to some group shoots, again tf...

After a while I started getting paid offers of work :)



If I was looking to do a tf...shoot with someone then I would be looking for the very best that I could find in that genre, to me that makes sense!



What would I suggest? Well try going to some group shoots, people will give you tips and

show you some of the tricks of the trade!

Or go to some of the work shops that people have from time to time.

Yes, it will cost you (money!) but knowledge and education isn't free any more unfortunately



Hope none of this has caused offence to any one, that wasn't my intentions

Quoting post from tanzanite1
Well this is always going to be a problem for both models and photographers of all levels of ability.



This is how I see it:-



Beginner photographer wants to do a tf... shoot with a model, and that's fine, nothing wrong with that, BUT.......and this is where the problems start....



Model wants fabulous, stunning pictures, but the beginner photographer is not able to deliver the goods.

So what happens next?

Should the beginner photographer work with beginner models? In which case neither model or photographer will learn anything from each other as they just don't know.



Or should beginner photographer shoot tf...with established models? In which case the model can teach the photographer some things, but won't get the quality of images as he/she would do if he/she shot with an experienced photographer.



Now this is where it gets more interesting!!!!



Would an experienced photographer shoot tf.... with a beginner model, knowing that he/she is not going to get the pose, expression, look etc etc with out a lot of hard work directing? While i'm sure some will, I suspect the vast majority won't! And I don't blame them, they have learnt there trade!



I have no answers for any of this, it's all up to you what you do and how you go about doing it, but this is what I did:-



I paid a photographer for two shoots....YES, I PAID.....TWICE..... {hs} {hs}



That got me a strong port for a beginner and got me sufficiently noticed to do some tfcd shoots. I then went to some group shoots, again tf...

After a while I started getting paid offers of work :)



If I was looking to do a tf...shoot with someone then I would be looking for the very best that I could find in that genre, to me that makes sense!



What would I suggest? Well try going to some group shoots, people will give you tips and

show you some of the tricks of the trade!

Or go to some of the work shops that people have from time to time.

Yes, it will cost you (money!) but knowledge and education isn't free any more unfortunately {:(}



Hope none of this has caused offence to any one, that wasn't my intentions {:)}

A well put piece and full of sensible comments. Now let this debate continue but please don't be precious . This is a forum thus there are arguments from both views eh? By the way Tanz I also paid for shoots over the years   In most cases money well spent and what the hell easy come easy go ha ha. Both with cash and blood sweat tears plus gallons of fuel and a number of hotel bills. Oh yes and on one shoot I bailed out the tog when his van broke down and got him towed home... Commitment or what lol.





 Now where do we go from here?

RedDove , Model  posted on 24/11/2011 15:08:00   Posted 512 times

Located:Chippenham,Wiltshire, UK
Member Since: 27/07/2009

Yes I agree with Tanzanite 100%.  I too started by paying a professional model and hiring a studio for an afternoon along with a professional togs know how.  I think the original post was about the problem of his applicants failing to turn up or get in touch and unfortunately that is the problem with the internet sites that I've experienced.  I can't be bothered with it anymore.

So you use agencies?

Now where do we go from here?

RedDove , Model  posted on 24/11/2011 15:49:30   Posted 512 times

Located:Chippenham,Wiltshire, UK
Member Since: 27/07/2009

Is this a call for some kind of local group shoots where experienced models and photographers get together with those just starting out?

Could be a good idea - would solve ia few peoples woes.  I have even emailed 2 "models" on here asking for details of rates with no replies even tho when checking back they have logged in. 

Quoting post from alfaal
Could be a good idea - would solve ia few peoples woes.  I have even emailed 2 "models" on here asking for details of rates with no replies even tho when checking back they have logged in. 

Meetup.com does things like that... I think a few models i have worked with started there as do some togs.

I joined one when first moved to London and its great fun.. though it does get to a point where you have too many togs and it becomes a battle of who is the most demanding!

This kind of put me off and i went my own way.

I'd be interested in doing group stuff though along the lines being talked about...

I've also has a few negative exp with models etc, but actually the positive seems to outweigh the negative and i think that's what keeps me going....

drewhartphotography , Photographer  posted on 28/11/2011 15:53:32   Posted 22 times

Located:London,London, UK
Member Since: 26/10/2010

Quoting post from alfaal
Could be a good idea - would solve ia few peoples woes.  I have even emailed 2 "models" on here asking for details of rates with no replies even tho when checking back they have logged in. 

Must admit I find the whole thing very dis-illusioning. I responded to a model's looking for work post on the 22nd November, she hasn't as yet read my reply and neither has she logged in. She is obviously very serious about looking for work

Rob M


Remember: - If it ain't fun, it ain't worth doing

Emailed "only" 2 - hah!

Is it perhaps because some models need to have etiquette - courtesy guidance?
i.e. how to say thanks but, no thanks.

Perhaps some kind of guidance in the forum help and feedback area?

Rather than responding to the negative, they choose to not reply at all.

I personally would prefer to be turned down, that would end the ‘thread’ finally.

Better that than to be left hanging and wondering.
I’m a big boy, I can deal with being turned down. After all I used to be a Gigolo and got used to being turned down (nearly starved to death in-fact) but I hate being ignored it’s the height of – well, ignorance!

Ok, I have shot with 23 models on here in 2 years (probably more but thats the References I have), Ok that is not massivie but you have to invest your time, site, forum posts, castings... to make it work for you.  I have 3 shoots lined up from N-P alone this month...bordering January.  Participate, collaborate and create. 

GCImages , Photographer  posted on 01/12/2011 01:00:45   Posted 677 times

Located:Gloucestershire,Hampshire, UK
Member Since: 03/10/2009

Is there any point in offering your services at all .... Hmmm lets see.

I have so called paying customers who book, and then decide they have found someone cheaper, or even have the cheek to ask for it for free if they can get me some work from their friends ..... Yeah right.

At least with TFCD TFP there is no illusion of payment.

Just don't pin your hopes on this site, as it's just a site with might be's and possibles.

It's a starting point and nothing else.  

Kiwipics , Photographer  posted on 01/12/2011 09:50:25   Posted 7 times

Located:Burton Latimer,Northamptonshire, UK
Member Since: 03/02/2009

Quoting post from GCImages
Ok, I have shot with 23 models on here in 2 years (probably more but thats the References I have), Ok that is not massivie but you have to invest your time, site, forum posts, castings... to make it work for you.  I have 3 shoots lined up from N-P alone this month...bordering January.  Participate, collaborate and create. 

Are you gloating Glenn?

It was lovely

RedDove , Model  posted on 01/12/2011 11:44:09   Posted 512 times

Located:Chippenham,Wiltshire, UK
Member Since: 27/07/2009

Not at all.  Just showing that it can work ;-)

Glenn

GCImages , Photographer  posted on 01/12/2011 23:22:51   Posted 677 times

Located:Gloucestershire,Hampshire, UK
Member Since: 03/10/2009