Anyone think that we should have an area to post model or photographers names who mess us about - i have contacted a model three times about trying to organise a shoot and every time see says lets get it sorted, Nothing !! She only has one picture on her portfolio that has not been updated probally since she joined - lets just delete her from here and save everyone the hassle - I am sure there are togs and other mods on here who are the same and are only on here so they can tell their mates they are a model or pro photographer - cant the admins start to weed out accounts that havent been used in over 6 months or start a list so that once they have been mentioned on that list more than five times they get their account suspended ???

There are just to many time wasters - lets try and do something about it please

You contacted her three times????

I would have stopped bothering with the waster after the first contact.  Put her name in your 'little black book of people never to waste time on.'

Move on - find someone else.

There is a reference system to allow others to make up their own minds about who they should or should not work with. If she has no references and no recent work why are you so keen to shoot her? Asking for her to be deleted is probably a little harsh.

You see, there is always a chance, however slim, that she doesnt want to work with you but doesnt have the guts to come out and say so. Mumbling a vague 'yeah, sounds great - lets sort it out' and hoping it all goes away is often preferable to getting into an argument about why she doesnt want to work with you.

Were these shoots TF* by any chance?

I am not sure if there is a fair way (or a way that is not open to abuse) of outing the time wasters, Flakes etc.
But i have to admit to getting more than a little tired of how their numbers seem to be increasing in ratio to the genuine serious members.

What i don't understand... i have models that have travelled a lot of miles (50-60 even over 100 each way, and for TF*) to shoot with me, however the closer the model is, the more likely they are to flake.

Although it can be very frustrating... i suppose it is something we just have to accept, and be more careful/selective in our search.

Strawbs, I for one, entirely agree with you. You probably wish to photograph that particular model because you find her photogenic, and/or she lives reasonably close. You probably want to give her the opportunity to make positive arrangements. "Moving on" is often not the the preferred option. In the end of course, you have to, but there are a lot of time-wasters on here, they do need weeding out, and the obvious way to do it is to remove those who don't log in for a prolonged period. The site won't do this though. I know of one model on here who pays for platinum membership but she gave up modelling well over a year ago. She hasn't visited the site since she left and has no  intention of returning to modelling in the forseeable future, you won't get any response from her if you send her a message.

I am a big boy now, I am 44 and 3/4 yrs old - I can take rejection - I prefer honesty than lip service - The model in question has one picture on her port probally taken on a mobile - she lives local and i just assumed that maybe the reason she is on here is to get work and make some money - yes the shoot was tf but i am the one coming to her and using my time and equipment to help her update her portfolio.  O.k, I do  get something from it too - the chance to meet a new model, network and hopefully also get something nice to update my portfolio too.  If she doesnt wanna work tfp then why not say so- just say you only taking paid work as you have stacks of bills to pay or just lie and say your leg was bitten off by a crocodile on holiday and unfortunately until you get it back you have had to put the modeling on hold. Just dont say you wanna shoot and mess me about for the next two months!!! 

I always check references before I work with a photographer. I think if everyone uses the reference system then time wasting models or togs will get wiped out that way as people will know who to work with. :)
sam x

Hi Strawbs, frustrating as it is I don't think that flagging time wasters would help as there will always be an excuse (sometimes valid) and in reality they haven't let you down in the same way as a no show does. The likely outcome is lots of angry denials from models that feel they have been misrepresented, and it would be pretty hard for the site to sort out which stick and which don't.

I suspect it's quite hard for new models who always seem to get a bundle of pm's from 'semi pro' togs that want to shoot TF nude glamour and will really help them to develop a fantastic portfolio.  I know you well enough to know that you are entirely professional, but there are plenty of togs that are just GWC's looking for a thrill so I can understand why some choose not to respond but perhaps it might be better for them to close their account although the allure of becomming a model may keep them online. 
 
However, the signs of a potential time waster are already there:

Been on the site for over 6 months but only has one camera picture or 2 or 3 low res images from a single shoot usually one of those expensive birthday present make overs.
Paid work is their preferrence.
Will only work with pro togs.
A dodgy nude image but then go on about how they don't do nude or topless (a bit late, the whole world has seen yer bits!  ).
They log in almost every day to see how many adoring photographers have pm'd them to reinforce their 'model' status.  Or they haven't logged in since they joined on the basis they can still tell their friends they're on a 'modelling site'.
Very vague notes or none at all.

I might still lob them a speculative pm but if I don't get good comms I drop them, probability is they'll no show if initial comms are a struggle anyway.  If two or three of the above apply I fully expect a poor response.

Can't be avoided though, there is no criteria for models to meet to enable them to sign up, they don't even need a photographer as many have self taken images.  Tempting as it is to persevere with a model that has a look you want to work with I think you just have to move on.  I used to get really miffed about it but recently I remembered it's just a hobby for me and will do something else if it starts getting frustrating.  If worse comes to worse I can always drink beer.

DrC


 

Pandora's Box

Your idea makes complete sense but, there is nothing to stop someone from falsley saying something about you. Just like ebay no longer allows the bad feedback to be left there or for there to be a bit of bad feedback Tennis, it would be hard to know who is being truthful.

I would set out, like some other togs have said, to how many times to reply back to a model. There is no third time in asking with me. After the second one, I leave it and move on. It would be nice for a polite reply, but as i say " no reply? just take of the "reply" bit and you have your answer.

happy shooting

Jay

Jay Photography , Photographer  posted on 08/09/2010 15:34:21   Posted 26 times

Located:london,London, UK
Member Since: 06/05/2009

There have been quite a few very similar threads. They generally follow a similar pattern :

Photographer mails new/inexperienced model offering a TF* shoot out of the goodness of his heart to update her portfolio for 'free'.

Ingrate model doesnt reply or doesnt actually ever confirm or turn up

Angry post appears calling for banning of timewasters

Its so easy to avoid this happening to you. Dont bother mailing newbies or the needy offering TF* shoots. Let those who might want to work with you find you. If they ask you for a shoot the chances of it ever happening are vastly better.
Or post a casting, that way if they let you down you can leave some feedback.

It will never change. If a model doesnt want to work with you she probably wont actually work with you. She may be a silly ungrateful cow but its her choice. If she wants to work with you she will probably mail you and ask. Mailing newbies is a waste of time generally - why would anyone want to do it?

Good point Gary well versed - think that is the way to go - casting calls - but even then it hard for some models to get that right - applying for a shoot that asks for nude and then telling you that they dont even do topless or that they live 500 miles from you and require a plane ticket and two nights in a hotel for a tfp shoot ???

still thats the crazy world of modelling - probally why we love it so much :)

   Hmmm .... at the risk of being thrown stones at, and with all due respect to all, saying that "this is the world of modelling ....etc.," is not really true. In the world of professional modelling, the models only apply for jobs that they know they can and will do, they don't apply on speculation and waste everyones time, they turn up on time, work to the brief effectively, don't make excuses, bring the right things, don't try to barter, don't keep changing the booking the night before, and - don't have an over inflated sense of their value, job done. Professional models have generally worked their way up at their own expense to begin with, not just got out of bed one morning and said "i think i'll be a model today, i'm now worth £50 an hour" without any skill to bring to a shoot at all, to a point where they have a realistic view on their own worth. I've had models who've been doing it 3 weeks ask me for the same rate as one who's an established professional. This has got to be the only vocation in the world where the lesser skilled person expects the better skilled one to pay - obviously there are exceptions, but why pay someone who can't do anything except stand there? After 25 yrs as a pro i've got the hang of it by now and i for one am not prepared to pay a model for me to do all the work and maybe not even get the result i wanted. If a professional model doesn't perform as advertised -you send her away.
   A professional is someone with acknowleged skill at their trade, making them worth paying, an amateur is someone who is learning the trade or is happy to do it as a hobby and as such should have a good perspective of their value - we all started there i think and i've not lost sight of that, i spent a lot of money hiring pro models who could teach me lots, then reached a balance point where we would shoot with no charges, then moved on to charging for my services as i got better and even after 25 years i'm not in a position to charge as much as Newton etc.
   The thing i love about working with new models is watching and helping them to develop their skills, many are the time that i've experienced the thrill of seeing an outwardly everyday girl suddenly come to life in front of the camera, often to the point where i can learn too, there's nothing like it is there? But, more and more frequently i'm being asked to pay for the experience?? Since when did people get payed to go to school?
    Typical message to me "i've been modelling 2 months and really love your work! I would love to work with you to get some really good shots for my portfolio, i will only ask the special rate of £35/hour" so, you want me to use my skill, you will add nothing and learn along the way, to do shots for your portfolio - and i should pay?!
    Anyway, i'm not looking to start a debate cos it's never going to change now, i mean no offence to the many gifted photographers and models on this site - these are just my opinions and i'll continue to work with models who have the right sense of perspective. I currently have an offer on here where i do half a day for me (artistic nude) and half a day for the model. Bearing in mind that my charge for half day model shoot is £195, the model is theoretically being paid this amount for her work for me. I've had some that i haven't got a useable shot from but i've filled my part of the bargain - it's a chance you take, and i've had some really good girls. Don't forget that a professional nude model would charge about £150 for half a day, i still like to take the risk with an amateur for that enjoyment of teaching/learning watching someone develop and being part of it.
    I just wish that some new/amateur models would show some respect for people who are prepared to offer them something at times and get a realistic idea of their value.
    How many times have you had someone reply to a TFP casting and then ask you to pay?
   
Best wishes to all,

Mick payton