Help please any pro photographers that would know what fee to charge a national newspaper for the use of an image in a strory they have run.  they have used MY image without consent and have been advised to suggest a fee to them?  Its The Sun and if they had asked i would not have allowed them to use it!!!   Help 

I am not a photographer but considering that paper goes to about 5 million people nationwide I would have thought you could set a fee based on the number of people that see it and the number of papers it was printed in, each being considered one use of your image.

As such if your fee was as little as 5p per usage, I see no reason why you couldn't bill them for 5p * 5 million = 25000000p, £250,000. If it was a shot of a model and there was an agreement between you and the model on its use and this has caused distress to both you and the model, effected your professional integrity as a result then why not throw in a claim for this into the mix.

I'd go in with that and negotiate from there . I would have thought since it has been used without permission or consent that you could choose almost any usage fee within reason, I personally don't see why 10p per use isn't a crazy request bringing it to half a million you can claim off them.

No doubt they will say no to whatever you say, at which time I'd threaten with going to the press, I am sure a rival would love to smear their name for trying to bully the little guy. Sell that story for a nominal sum, get yourself some free press, you can't lose. Then Tell them you'd take them to court and almost certainly some (far below what you originally asked for) out of court settlement will happen.

Just make sure you have all the proof needed that you are the copyright holder and keep a record of all conversations between you and them.

Any photographers been in this position before when someone as big as the Sun has used their work? I'd also like to know if the above is acceptable as I see no reason why not.

Good luck with taking them on, please keep us posted on your progress here!

M

DragonLady , Digital Retoucher  posted on 16/08/2010 15:53:42   Posted 934 times

Located:London,London, UK
Member Since: 07/11/2008

http://www.photographersindex.com/price-ed-calc.htm

calculator here.

but you should at least double for not asking you. and check if they syndicated the story where you should get all the fees plus more fines. let us know.
jon

english please..!!lol  syndicated?  i am new to all this and really need some help. 

a newspaper can sell the story on - 'syndication'. it could be in every paper in the world

Darn, based on that calculator if it was a full page use in the paper and putting them at 5-10 million circulation you can only charge $850 at the high end? Photographers really do get a raw deal sometimes. I can see why so many go down the pap route, documentaries I have seen there talk about 'gold' images selling for fortunes when tabloids go into bidding wars. I agree with jon though, hit them for more for not asking permission.

Good luck and please, please do keep us posted on how you get on.

M

DragonLady , Digital Retoucher  posted on 16/08/2010 19:44:07   Posted 934 times

Located:London,London, UK
Member Since: 07/11/2008

I think you have to be realistic.  The prices quoted by members are not based on reality.  Price calculators bear very little resemblance to what images are sold for these days.

'Spot' size - about £30.

Half page - about £75

Full page  - about £120

You will be lucky if you get anywhere near those figures.  Contact them and explain - politely - the situation and ask them - politely - to whom should you send your invoice.

You should also work out where the image was hosted - Flickr?  If it was it happens all the time.  Be prepared for The Sun to respond with  - 'It was in the public domain.'  Be prepared to stand your ground and argue your case. 

You should also look very carefully at the terms and conditions of Flickr before you post images there.  Personally I would never post an image on Flickr unless it was smothered in water marks and full copyright info embedded in the exif data.

The above also applies if the image was on your own website.

Gordon

Quoting post from gordonscammell
I think you have to be realistic.  The prices quoted by members are not based on reality.  Price calculators bear very little resemblance to what images are sold for these days.

'Spot' size - about £30.

Half page - about £75

Full page  - about £120

You will be lucky if you get anywhere near those figures.  Contact them and explain - politely - the situation and ask them - politely - to whom should you send your invoice.

You should also work out where the image was hosted - Flickr?  If it was it happens all the time.  Be prepared for The Sun to respond with  - 'It was in the public domain.'  Be prepared to stand your ground and argue your case. 

You should also look very carefully at the terms and conditions of Flickr before you post images there.  Personally I would never post an image on Flickr unless it was smothered in water marks and full copyright info embedded in the exif data.

The above also applies if the image was on your own website.

Gordon

Surely if they took it from Flickr it would not be high enough res for print quality?

Also I think be firm and let them know you mean business. Would you be polite to a burglar? The only reason to show any courtesy would be to come across professional which I agree on but don't be like 'hello, I am very sorry to say I think one of my images has been used' etc. Be more like:

'Hello, It has come to my attention that you have violated my intellectual property either knowingly or not. In any event as a large publisher I assume you are well educated on the rights of work used and the importance of ensuring the correct copyright is given. As such I am dissapointed to see that...' etc

and don't under quote your invoice or under sell yourself. Whatever you intend to get that you feel it is worth, double, if not triple it on your first request as they will negotiate you down. They will want to know what you think its worth and use you to price it I can assure you. If you come in at the figures above they'll say, there you go, here is £50 now jog on.

Hit them with eveyrthing and you might get something. Personally I think they'll ignore you until you send them a formal letter. The moment you take any cash though then it is a done deal, you'll be gutted if you found out later you could have got them for much more. Hell it is your work, they are a very profitable newspaper and they used your work to help their profits, you should get your cut. What is the worst that can happen should you ask for more than you expect? Nothing.

One way to value it could be to apportion it based on how much of the paper percentage wise was covered in your image, work out their rough turnover on their circulation at their price then use this percentage to calculate your cut and invoice them for that, see what happens.

Good luck

M

DragonLady , Digital Retoucher  posted on 17/08/2010 13:57:10   Posted 934 times

Located:London,London, UK
Member Since: 07/11/2008

sorry
you are very wrong and mis informed
i sold a picture of a frosty tree to the daily mail for £300 earlier this year.
if it is a shot no-one else has than name your price.
a drunk celeb could reach £10,000 for a full page feature exclusive in the Sun.
jon

Quoting post from dalyjk
sorry
you are very wrong and mis informed
i sold a picture of a frosty tree to the daily mail for £300 earlier this year.
if it is a shot no-one else has than name your price.
a drunk celeb could reach £10,000 for a full page feature exclusive in the Sun.
jon

Sorry.  I am not 'very wrong and misinformed.'  I know what I am talking about as I have been selling stock images for many years and do it for a living. 

Yes.  I have sold images for 4 figure sums.  On the other hand the last 8 images I have sold have gone for an average 0f £50 each - the last one for a double page spread in a magazine of 200,000 circulation for £75.

Unfortunately I am unable to set the price for the images on most of the stock libraries I work through.  The libarary negotiates the price.  Most newspapers and magazines now negotiate a lower price if they bulk buy.   

The £75 figure is now the average norm.  The higher prices happen but are a lot rarer these days.

Of course, if it is a shot no-one else has then you can - up to a point - name your price.  But I am not discussing the 'one off images' - I am referring to the normal, everyday, bread and butter images.  If the OP believes he/she has a unique image then he/she should be prepared to stump up the money and hire a good barrister and not waste time discussing it here. 

Yes - Flickr images can and have been 'lifted' - happens a lot more than people realise.

Gordon

Try http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/index.php?section=Photography

That will give you the going rates


Kevin
http://www.kevinjamesphotography.net

Quoting post from anochecer
Try http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/index.php?section=Photography

That will give you the going rates


Kevin
http://www.kevinjamesphotography.net

thanks for posting that link, I've had a few images lately gone off to press to be used for product promotion but not being sure where I stood on it i'm fighting even for a simple credit, be extremely helpful having this in future.